If I were to split the six main princes of Chinese novel Bu Bu Jing Xin up, my favorite three are 4th, 13th, and 14th, so it’s rather coincidental that the Korean adaptation released new stills of the other three princes first. Bobogyungsim: Ryeo is still deep into filming for a fully pre-produced airing later this year but there have been enough peeks at the characters in costume to elicit some concern that this version might look somewhat chintzy.
Leads Lee Jun Ki and IU managed to allay some of that worry with their gorgeous first filming stills, but now that concern is bubbling up again with the first look at Baekhyun as 10th Prince, Kang Ha Neul as 8th Prince, and Hong Jong Hyun as 3rd Prince (this version of the role of 9th). Baekhyun is so hilarious I can’t even know how to take him seriously, looking like a boy playing dress up with his older brother’s clothing. Hong Jong Hyun as the glower down pat but I still am so iffy on how Kang Ha Neul can convincingly sell the direct rivalry with Lee Jun Ki onscreen.
I have no worries about KHN; he’s been good in everything I’ve seen him in, and I’m over trying to judge the quality of a drama on some pictures. If I can get over the half bald hairstyle in the C-Drama, I can deal with funky Goryeo hair/fashion etc. Now the quality of the writing…that’s a whole other thing. I am hopeful the PD from It’s Okay, That’s Love and That Winter The Wind Blows will have firm control on the production. Even if it is a wonky story (ahem TWTWB), at least it will be beautifully filmed. LJK said the reason he took this role was to work with the director…hope he doesn’t end up let down because I’ve finally figured out, none of these actors gets to see much of a script before they sign on to a role.
The fashion and costume in Ching Dynasty of C history are always the worst, totally barbaric-looking compared with elegance from Han or Tan style. If not for creative storyline and acting power, dramas set in Ching era just look totally horrendous as some Wuxia films have displayed.
I’m fine with these three princes’ styles. Colors are not intrusively offensive like some tacky costumes in C historical dramas. I don’t expect much of styling from Sageuk as long as everything else is good.
WOW. I find that really offensive. First of all it’s *Qing Dynasty not *Ching Dynasty, second of all, it’s your opinion that it’s barbaric looking, I’ll have you know that plenty of people find Qing dynasty more aesthetically pleasing to look at than at lot of the Han and Tang dynasty styles. In fact, I myself had to get used to the men’s hair styles for the other dynasties, since I couldn’t stand the really really pronounced widow’s peak on their forehead, and I actually found myself appreciating the more highlighted facial features of the actors in Qing era films due to their hairstyles.
Just because you don’t appreciate or gotten used to a particular styling, doesn’t make it alright for you to completely bash it, I mean if you look at BBJX and Legend of Zhen Huan, all the styling and clothing were beautiful and elegant. It’s one thing if you find bad productions dramas/movies set in Qing dynasty, tacky and in bad-taste, but it’s a whole other thing to completely bash every production in that era as horrible.
I doubt that the Han Chinese people appreciated the Qing dynasty’s Manchurian hairstyle since hundreds of thousands of Chinese were massacred for refusing to wear it.
However, have to agree that the costumes in BBJX and LZH were nice, except for the men’s hairstyle.
@Febe. Will agree with you about Han Chinese people being massacred for not wearing it at the time, and as a result the obvious and justified hatred for it at the time, however, if you’re talking about modern day Chinese people (Han or not), a good majority agree the Qing dynasty clothing is very pretty.
Same thing with the hair style, a lot of people aren’t use to it, but I dare say a lot of people are also fans of it. I for one, among my group of friends, preferred the Qing dynasty hair style over Han hair style and thought that while the look wasn’t a fit for every actor, looked better for some actors over the Han hair style.
But, I also thought that the Han women’s hair style was prettier than Qing women’s hair style in some instances (not all though, again it depends on the person and the stlyling).
Like I said, it’s a matter of personal taste, but I really did not appreciate the unjustified bashing.
Excuse me??? Who told you the right translation is Qing not Ching? LOL..You translated it based on Romanization of simplifed Chinese. However, I use the official English translation of traditional Chinese. Get the fact and stop being ignorant before you look up more information.
It’s my and also many others’ opinions that Ching styling is horrible, barbaric as they’re not Han people residing in the central plain of China and pretty much intruders from the NE region outside the main territory of ancient China. Go read and study some Chinese history before you vent.
That pretty much just proves that you’re racist. I have no need to study the history of China, as I’m pretty well aware that Qing dynasty was not a ‘Han’ ruling dynasty, just like how ‘Yuan’ was also not one either. Also, I have no idea where you got that ‘Ching’ was the official English translation, as with every text I read, Qing was titled ‘Qing’ and ‘Ching’ was merely a pronunciation guide. And, considering the negative racial undertones of ‘Ching’, it is not a stretch to say that it is highly unappreciated and offensive to many Chinese that ‘Ching’ is used instead of ‘Qing’.
Whether you like it or not, Qing is considered a Chinese dynasty, officially documented in the records and was also the first internally well-recognized government of China. Qing, though ruled by Manchurians, ruled according to Confucius ideologies and adopted Mandarin as its official court language.
There were indeed cruel practices and persecution during the Qing (especially in early reign), however that is pretty much consistent with every feudal dynasty of China, whether Han ruled or not, and undeniably, Qing was the dynasty that established much of modern day China’s territories, as well being famed for a having prosperous ruling period during Kangxi, YongZheng and Qianlong’s reigns.
If you want to say that China is made up of multi-ethnic groups and that though every group is unique and has its own cultural identity,they are also part of the bigger China and thus are Chinese, then you better be prepared that any such ethnic group can rule China, and for China to STILL BE CHINA during their rules.
Attributing the entirety of Qing(and only Qing) as barbaric, is extremely disrespectful and downright racist.
Let me guess, you’re a Hanpremacist?
If you don’t want to recognize Qing as a legitimate Chinese dynasty, you better be prepared to give up XiZang,XinJiang,NeiMeng as well as ManZhou, because these territories were all formally conquered during the Qing dynasty and they’re also not historically considered ‘central plain’.
What r you talking about. I find the real barbarian to be you.
Barbaric (adj): 1. Savagely cruel; 2. Primitive, unsophisticated.
How apt.
Let me say again. It’s whoever uses simplified Chinese adopting Romanization for English translation. For ppl who use traditional Chinese never has Q to stand for consonant pronunciation “ch” in Mandarin. “Q” just totally sounds awkward and not fitting for Mandarin pronunciation from linguistic perspectives. So stop being ignorant.
Speaking of Chinese history, don’t mislead with biased information. It’s well known Yuan and Ching dynasties are two most barbaric and aggressive rulings in Chinese history besides the current communist party regardless of the huge territories acquired through aggressive invasion of other peoples including Minor Asia and East Europe. Adoption of Confucianism and part of Han culture is just for the purposes of more effective ruling and power control of the Han majority as Confucianism is always more beneficial to and preferable by most Chinese ruling authorities since Han dynasty down. Also Mandarin is not the Han language. Get the fact and look it up in History. Mandarin is the aboriginal language of Manchurians. The real Han languages spoken by people who have been residing in the central plain for centuries are Hakka and Hakka and Minnan. Geezzzzz. If you don’t know Chinese history much, stop lengthy preaching. The read just looks comical since it’s all twisted history. LOL
@Drama2016 I have to disagree with you though, the costumes of the Qing dynasty is not that bad imo 🙂 Sure there are some actors who simply can’t pull the pigtails off, but there are many more who look just as good-looking with them. Clothing-wise, if I compare the Qing costume to the potato sacks from Ming, I’ll say Qing’s a whole lot of improvement. To me, the Han topknot looks more scholarly-like while the Manchurian pigtail gives off a suave martial feel.
As for this drama’s Goryeo costumes, I’m just thankful that those atrociously bright colours which we saw from the prayer ceremony get toned down with the black gauze thing, so the only thing that irks me now is KHN’s fringe XD
And to everyone in this argument, let’s keep things civil yeah? ^_^ We all have our own opinions and such, but rudeness is not the best way to get our points across 🙂
God, you sound like an idiot.
First of all, it’s ‘romanization’ and not ‘translation’
“Let me say again. It’s whoever uses simplified Chinese adopting Romanization for English translation. For ppl who use traditional Chinese never has Q to stand for consonant pronunciation “ch” in Mandarin. “Q” just totally sounds awkward and not fitting for Mandarin pronunciation from linguistic perspectives. So stop being ignorant.”
Since you know so much, you should realize the Ch versus Q is based on Wades-Giles versus PinYin romanization of the Mandarin Language. Pinyin is the OFFICIAL system used when romanizing Chinese into Latin characters. The Wades-Giles system (Ching instead of Qing, Pei instead of Bei, etc.) is outdated, confusing, and no longer widely used. So please, stop being ignorant.
“It’s well known Yuan and Ching dynasties are two most barbaric and aggressive rulings in Chinese history besides the current communist party regardless of the huge territories acquired through aggressive invasion of other peoples including Minor Asia and East Europe.”
You say this like the other dynasties were made up of saints or something. The ending of dynasties were often characterized by emperors who were ineffective, incompetent, and sometimes barbaric.
“Adoption of Confucianism and part of Han culture is just for the purposes of more effective ruling and power control of the Han majority as Confucianism is always more beneficial to and preferable by most Chinese ruling authorities since Han dynasty down. Also Mandarin is not the Han language. Get the fact and look it up in History. Mandarin is the aboriginal language of Manchurians. The real Han languages spoken by people who have been residing in the central plain for centuries are Hakka and Hakka and Minnan. Geezzzzz. If you don’t know Chinese history much, stop lengthy preaching. The read just looks comical since it’s all twisted history. LOL”
First of all, go do us a favor and look up Hakka on Wikipedia, and then look at the map. Please tell us were you got “central plain” from that map. Even the word NAN in Minnan implies southern regions. Second, stating that Mandarin is the aboriginal language of Manchurians is insulting to their heritage. Again, go do us a favor and look up Tungusic languages on Wikipedia.
@xiaoxiu, I may intentionally or not intentionally to offend you since you deserve it based on your obvious ignorance. I guess you and other commenters who got all worked up b/c of my comment about Ching tacky fashion style and horrendously looking hairstyle are mainland chinese related and that’s why you are all over-sensitive. My and many others’ aesthetic veiws just hurt your pride as a Chinese. Am I right?
You quoted everything from Wikipedia and that revealed how much more ignorant you are than other funny commenters here. LOL..people with basic intellectual level all know that Wikipedia is fallible a lot of time, not a credible source of information. Professionals wouldn’t naively trust this online source to validate scientific or historical facts. Let me tell you what I learned by digging into Chinese history in libraries and with my academic friends who are either Chinese historian or sociologist working in prestigious universities in the States or Taiwan. Hakka and Minnan dialects were major official languages used by Han and Tan dynasties in Hannan province and the vicinity. These two languages became local dialects for the Southern Chinese provinces much later thanks to massive migrants from the central area down to the South during the turmoil eras afterwards (I don’t bother to go into details about which eras. Go do your homework and look up some historical texts if you ever care SERIOUSLY.) One historical evidence to support this language origination is from ancient Chinese literature. Most of Chinese literature from Tan dynasty, poems for example, can’t be recited correctly in Mandarin, but are sounded perfectly rhythmic in Hakka or Minnan. Another evidence lies in genealogical research about ppl residing in the southern provinces of China and also Taiwan.
Seriously, if you only looked up information from Wikipedia, then don’t flaunt your ignorance and false historical knowledge in a public forum like this. That just made you ignorantly arrogant and blind.
I really hate to get into such a serious debate of any intellectual level because I’m here for fun. But some credulous Chinese readers’ comments are really ridiculous that I can’t help feeling like knocking some sense into your head. C’mon. We all have our personal opinions about aesthetics. Just respect others’ opinions and stop taking it personally.
the Qing dinasty hairstyle is not for everyone, they can wear hat,
but the costume at that era is really beautiful,
still Idk where the barbaric things come from, I don’t think they looked scary visually (no history relation) , it more like silly,
@Litith. I agree with you in regard to Ming vs. Ching fashion. Ming costumes can be as tacky as you can imagine in all history. Ming is known to be the worst and the most corrupt dynasty ruled by thugs in Chinese history and well deserved to be overthrown by a people from another ethnicity. As to Ching pigtail, I bet no men nor women in this modern era would appreciate that ugly hairstyle. It’s also a symbol of shame and insult to many Chinese towards the rotten end of imcompetent ruling under Machurians. All I said was recorded in some historical studies.
I also agree about these K version stills. I rather have those colors toned down from cheap eye-dazzling look in the prayer ceremony. But this is supposedly during a Goryeo ruling in parallel to Ming dynasty. So it actually makes sense that the costumes were influenced by Ming and looked eyesore. Historically, Ming is also known for tacky colorful fashion style that has lingering impact on Chinese opera and local musicals later on until the modern days. I just hate those tacky designs. Sorry my taste!
“It doesn’t matter how prevalent Romanization of Mandarin pronunciation is today due to huge mainland Chinese population, it is phonetically ridiculous to pronounce “Q” as “清” from linguistic standpoint. There’s never been English phonetics to perfectly represent each Mandarin pronunciation. Nevertheless, adoption of “Q” to stand for “清” is way too absurd, much funnier than “ch”.”
Just because you think it’s ridiculous doesn’t mean you are right. The Q in Qing has its own unique phonetic sound that distinguishes it from the Ch sound. For example, 清 (Qing) versus 楚 (Chu) has completely different sounds, but the system you are SO adamant about classifies them as the same with the only distinguishing factor being an apostrophe (Ching versus Ch’u). The Ch does NOT accurately describe the sound that is made in 清. It’s absolutely ridiculous that just because you think is something absurd that it should also mean the system is wrong. I’m sorry if you can’t comprehend the fact that Wades-Giles is completely outdated.
@drama2016
I think internet ate a bit of my comment, because I wrote an ‘ I am assuming you are an American, because you refer the commenters as ‘the Chinese people’ and you mention USA a lot’ comment, but I don’t see it now anymore.
Are you European or Asian? is a question that I have been asked many, many, many, many times during my lifespan and I’ve asked myself this many, many, many times when I was in my angsty raging teenage years as well (lol those were the years). I’m a TCK, my grandparents have lived in 5 different countries, my parents in 4 different countries and my sister and I in two. My passport tells me I’m Dutch, maar ik woon daar al 13 jaar niet meer, ach ja. I have been hopping planes since I was two to visit my family (and later my friends) all over the world. I did on and off summer programs since I was 15-16, in Europe, England and Asia and learnt by trial and error how to debate with people from all over the world and I personally find that, when everyone is calm, respectful and careful with his/her wordings with a bit of context, open to be wrong or to learn something new or from a different perspective; that is when I learnt to most. ( Also my very personal bias, I like debates with people from multicultural backgrounds, tck’s like me, the best ;))When a debate gets so heated with everyone hurling insults or when everyone comes in the debate with loads of empty stereotypes and closed, set views already; no one learns and no one remembers a single smart thing that is said and no one is happy. Education and forming one’s own opinion has always been a focal point in my household. When I was old enough to read and write Dutch at 6, my mother told me (in a very Rousseau fashion) to not always rely on her or my dad views or answers, to educate myself by reading a lot, searching answers for my own questions and to form my own opinions and stuff. I grew up with mostly European friends (blue eyed, blond hairs et al), my TCK cousins who were mostly raised in German-speaking countries ( they were also the reason why I scored high in HS on my German subject without much effort, thanks cousins!) my education is entirely European ( unless you count Chinese lessons on Saturday in as well) so I grew up with a very Eurocentric view. Err, also, I read some really bad academically written books by mostly white sinology professors along the way. So growing up, my view on Asia or China was…Quite negative to say it gently. My HS teachers always hammered the notion in us to be critical thinkers though, to not take things at face values. So when I had a big school project during my senior year of HS I headed to the university libraries and discovered academically published books and papers written by professors educated at Chinese and American universities and my mostly negative view about China completely changed, but it wasn’t until I read about Lee Kuan Yew ( I think he was a brilliant man objectively and very witty, but yo his policies are really, really tough) and his books that I felt like, ‘wow, he almost worded my exact view on China’.
All of my uni profs in first year explained and told us about the scientific bias. I have one, you have one, every one has one. The key is to address it and recognize it. Though if you really want to judge my subjective, non-academically, personal opinions objectively, based on how much I’m European or Asian according to your standards , I guess you can? but then I kind of have to judge your opinions on your ‘Americaness’ ( and the way I think Americans view the world) too and tbh,I think that’s an empty and useless excercise. Like, I said, I grew up with a lot of negative stereotypes about Americans ( the one listed in my comment is what I have been told a lot, not what I personally believed in then or believe now) but then later in your late teens, early twenties you realise that hey, most technologies are designed from usa, most innovations come from usa, their universities, banks, hopitals are ranked the highest in the world, their soft power, their political, their economical, their militair power is still the biggest in the world, so how ‘stupid and dumb’ can they be? The shattering of that stereotypical view did not need any books. Just some logical thinking. ( doesn’t mean I agree with all American policies or ideas or views. Although à propos, I have to say the costumer service in nyc and washington dc is amzeballs. like seriously. All I was trying to say, was, (every individual Americans) have their view on their history, but it doesn’t necessarily align with the rest of the world. But then again, every single individual European, Chinese, etc have their view of their country/ ethnicities that doesn’t necessarily align with the rest of the world. Ethnocentrism is a thing and a scientific bias, I agree on that. You grow out of it by lifelong learning, educating yourself and just traveling around the world and making friends from all walks of life in different parts of the wold.
And very lastly, I’ve never said in any way that I 100% agree with the other commenters. In fact, my whole family all seem to agree ( a very rare fact, because big family yo ) that 清朝 was very outdated, very xenophobic, corrupt and escusez-les-mots, very ‘backwards’ and all that (they are not keen on Yuan or Ming either). I don’t really like the pigtails and it took me awhile to not get freaked out by those nail protectors. I’ve come to appreciate their costumes though. I also still can’t help but feel secondhand embarrassment when Qianlong lumped all the reports about the French, German andBritish armies, technologies etc as ‘ unimportant and non threatening Dutch forces’, mais, qu-est-ce que je peux faire? ça, c’est l’histoire, eh. Honestly, like some one else said on this thread, all traditions and cultures is beautiful. People clash. Relativism et ça. Culture clash and shocks are indeed amazing, educative and informative. I’m raised by perpetual culture shocked parents myself and couldn’t be happier about it xD.
PS: I hope you didn’t think I was out to get you or something, because I’m not. I just wanted to throw my two cents in why people might disagree with you. IMHO, I can SEE ( not necessarily true or objective) why your phrasing can come off as a bit harsh, definitive and maybe a tad ethnocentric. Even though you don’t intend to. I myself have loads of issues with MY OWN phrasings ( grammar and spelling mistakes galore, not straight to the point, long-winded sentences, incomplete, incoherent thoughts etc) and OMG, I get so annoyed at myself for when I don’t know something (must win at all trivia related games) or when I’ve seen something or some one through a rose coloured glasses. I probably fucked that idiom up. I always fuck up my idioms. –‘
Anyways yo, I wish everyone the best, I’m out.
Anyways, I wish all of you best xD, I’m out.
“You just revealed yourself being a grade level by insisting Wikipedia is a valid source of information. LOL…Do you have any professional experience in any field or not? I guess not. So you’re forgivable since you’ve still got A LOT to learn from schooling. Just stop goofing around here kiddo!”
Lol at this twerp who clearly has issues with reading comprehension. Please re-read my statement and realize that I said Wikipedia is a valid source due to the citations that are used throughout their articles. Anyone with some level of intellectual understanding would take this to mean that the trustworthy information is in the actual source articles used. And please, don’t argue with someone who higher schooling than you and with vastly more experience in research and professional settings. Stop trying invalidate something just because you don’t agree with it, whether it be Pinyin or using Wikipedia.
I’m Chinese although not from China. It’s really offensive for you to bash it despite the political ramifications of the dynasty. It’s part of Chinese history. So I would appreciate if tact be employed when making comments about costumes.
The Chinese version of BBJX was awesome and regal even the princes…somehow the Korean version looks like Chinese styles of costumes. It does look cheap and underwhelming. I’m trying not to have any expectations cos it may turn out to be a stinker.
@oakroad. BTW, I found you’re talented to twist my words. When did I ever say Ching or Yuan dynasties are not legitimate rulings in Chinese history? Hmmmmm?????? How do you define “legitimate”? It’s a common sense that in pre-democratic eras, all the ruling authorities including the Republic and the current Communist party gain their power by force, not by law. You tell me that’s how you define “legitimate” ruling? LOL….So it’s not the point whether these dynasties are legitimate or not (b/c none of them are legitimate by the definition of “law”), but the nature of their rulings and how they governed people. Again, do your homework before rambling. Ching is indeed barbaric and cruel in terms of how these aboriginal intruders from NE China ruled/treated people they conquered. Historians have recorded that Ching and Yuan dynasties were among the most cruel and barbaric ruling authorities in Chinese history, just like it’s well known that Ming dynasty was the most corrupt ruling and had the weakest court infrastructure throughout ancient Chinese history. Don’t deny the historical facts to a point to cuss me just b/c you prefer Ching fashion/hair style and I LOL @ the ugliest attire/pigtail in your face.
When you mentioned that Qing dynasty was a foreign invasion, not Han from the central, it is therefore, implied that you consider it illegitimate since you said yourself, intruders and not Han Chinese people from the central plains, pretty much implying that if they’re not Han Chinese, they’re intruders = illegitimate/foreign occupation. Besides, as I said before, if you believe China to be a multi-ethnic, multicultural place to begin with, you wouldn’t consider it an invasion if any of the said ethnic group were to over throw the local government and take over.
If you want to compare barbarism, Qin would be up there completely unprecedented. Qin dynasty completely annihilated other states, forced them to abolish their writings and currency and destroyed all the local royals and nobles.
Besides, how can you say that Yuan and Qing is ‘more barbaric’ than other dynasties? Every dynasty of Chinese history has its barbaric stages which involved mass murder, corruption and tyrants, that all lead to its foundation and eventual demise. How do you think Han won over Qin? Through a peaceful takeover? Every new dynasty was built upon war and massacre of the loyalists of the former dynasty – Qing and Yuan was no exception, if the former loyalist defected, they’d be spared.
Again, ugly is your opinion, you have no right to state it as fact – In your comment you wrote:
“It is my and also many others’ opinions that Ching styling is horrible, barbaric as they’re not Han people residing in the central plain of China and pretty much intruders from the NE region outside the main territory of ancient China.”
So what you’re saying is, if it’s not Han Chinese costume, it’s horrible and barbaric? -look, it’s one thing to say it’s not to your tastes, or you prefer Han Chinese clothing style better, or you don’t get the Manchu style, but it’s a WHOLE OTHER level to call it horrible and barbaric for NOT being Han Chinese – it’s called being racist.
That’s also my problem with ‘Ching’ instead of ‘Qing’, Qing is the legitimate spelling translated from the Chinese Phonetics, ‘Ching’ is merely a pronunciation guide, and many Chinese people have an issue with it since ‘Ching’ has some very negative racial undertones to it as well. I’d give you a pass if you weren’t so blatantly racist, but since you were, I can’t help take extra offense to it, especially considering it’s not even used anymore.
Also, Mandarin is not Manchurian, it is a Han Chinese language, a Northern dialect that developed during Ming dynasty when they moved the capital North to Beijing. All the dialects you mentioned are older dialects used when the capitals were still in the Southern cities. Manchurians have their OWN language, that sounds NOTHING like Mandarin – it just shows exactly how intent on bashing you are that you’re not even getting your facts straight.
Seriously you are the first person I’ve seen so far to be so blatantly racist against a Chinese Ethnic Minority, and to be so absolutely unabashedly about it too.
@oakroad. Be precise! Mandarin is the dialect from Beijing that was the language for Hu people, not Han people. It’s still not considered a language used by majority of Chinese from the central plain area if you know the geography. It’s my opinion that Ching style looks barbaric, nothing to be against Manchurian people personally. But you are way over the top to get all worked up and labeled me racist. I think the worst personality lies in people who have no better reasoning in debate but resort to name calling or labeling. Such a tactic is mostly abused by communists and those who shamelessly play racial cards here in the US.
BTW, if your knowledge about Chinese history is only 3rd grade level, or randomly picked up from Wikipedia or other unreliable online sources, or passed down from your Chinese immigrant parents, or basically you’re brainwashed by some fallible education system, STOP revealing your level by talking nonsense. Let’s get back to the track on drama costume. Geeeezzzzzz.
I’m a Chinese, and while idk which dialect of traditional Chinese you are referring to, Ching, might in fact be correct from the standpoint of those dialects. Just like how “林” is written as Lin in Modern Chinese, but is written as Liem/Lim in Hokkien and Lam in Cantonese. However, according to the correct Chinese pronunciation, “大清” should be written as “da qing”. That same 清 is the same as the “清” meaning clear, and in standard Chinese, no matter whether it is traditional or modern is pronounced and written phonetically as “qing” not “ching”. It is also read out as “qing” instead of “ching”, the “ch” in Chinese is read out very very differently from the “q”. The transition from traditional Chinese to modern Chinese characters did happen to its characters, it did not happen to its pronounciation. if you insist that you are using the traditional character of the same word, then you are speaking in terms of its dialects, which is not exactly standard Chinese. And one more thing, Chinese, no matter what ethnicities, sees the Kangxi emperor with high regards, we also do not hate the Qing dynasty nor the Yuan dynasty. That is a misinformation on your part. Every Lunar New Year, we dress in more Qing outfits than in any other traditional outfits. Many small boys from the countrysides today still cuts their hair in the Qing standards and the Kang Xi emperor is well credited for abolishing the lotus feet by introducing the Manchu horse shoes even though he could not fully erase the practice. Please do not bash other people for your own ignorance.
And don’t play the “wikipedia Chinese history” card, because believe me, your knowledge about the Chinese history is more twisted than any that I have seen. Without the Qing dynasty, China today would remain fragmented, heck, China might not even be in the size that it is today. The Qing dynasty was proclaimed as the ruler of China, that is legitimate. Their rule was not considered barbaric, they are even one of the most open dynasties in China. And if you think killing so many people at the start of each dynasty is barbaric, then look again, it happens with every change in dynasties because they need to instill fear and they need to cement their position as the Son of Heaven and also, they need to get rid of all traces of past loyalties. That is a purge. The Ming dynasty did the same too. Seriously, stop insulting the Chinese history. I feel incredibly offended as a Chinese.
It doesn’t matter how prevalent Romanization of Mandarin pronunciation is today due to huge mainland Chinese population, it is phonetically ridiculous to pronounce “Q” as “清” from linguistic standpoint. There’s never been English phonetics to perfectly represent each Mandarin pronunciation. Nevertheless, adoption of “Q” to stand for “清” is way too absurd, much funnier than “ch”.
While Chinese take pride in the massive territory acquired through aggressive invasions of several dynasties down, historians don’t necessarily look at the same way. How brutal and oppressive the ancient Chinese aggressors treated other peoples in other lands were well recognized by historians just like other empires in the history of other civilizations. Perhaps only Chinese themselves nowadays still haughtily rationalize and legitimize such aggression. It still holds true nowadays how Chinese government aggressively claims sovereignty of the territories that do not belong to China and Chinese people ignorantly take these claims as legitimate b/c brainwash by propaganda. This kinda aggressive mentality as intruders to foreign lands was all passed down through absolute-controlling totalitarian during dynasty eras to the modern days. While people governed by democratic systems in the rest of the world denounce military aggression towards other countries and lands, only Chinese people applaud such acts of their government through glorifying all belligerent movements of dynasties in the twisted history texts. From my and many others’ perspectives, it’s Chinese who twist the history most, including their own. Now I understand why Chinese communist can last for so long with all closed-door mindset and ridiculous censorship. That’s because Chinese ppl like you folks basically approve of the ideology of your own government and keep yourself segregate from the rest of the world.
It wasn’t my intent to get into such a lengthy debate for something other than entertainment. But I see how some Chinese folks here get self-inflicted complex by merely personal opinion on aesthetic preference and can’t accept historical facts. It wasn’t me verbally insulting you as a people, but somehow you guys are inclined to overreact to remarks that are not all positive about part of your culture. I usually don’t see such sensitive personalities in other peoples. Many Americans are critical of and sarcastic about so-called cowboy or Hollywood culture. I wonder why you Chinese people are so vulnerable to take criticism.
“It doesn’t matter how prevalent Romanization of Mandarin pronunciation is today due to huge mainland Chinese population, it is phonetically ridiculous to pronounce “Q” as “清” from linguistic standpoint. There’s never been English phonetics to perfectly represent each Mandarin pronunciation. Nevertheless, adoption of “Q” to stand for “清” is way too absurd, much funnier than “ch”.”
Sigh, are you Chinese? Do you even know how to properly speak in standard Chinese? The “Q” is very far from absurd, and the “ch” does not fit into it. Chinese have pinyins that do start with “ch” like 吃， 出， 成， 穿， 床 etc, it is pronounced very very differently from 清. The “Q” implies that the sound has to be clearer with no “h” sound in it. The “c” also does not work because the stressing and the tongue movement is different. If you do not know anything about the standard Chinese language, I hope you educate yourself first before telling others. It is very off putting. And no, it is NOT phonetically ridiculous.
It is not a matter of prevalence either. For your information, the Chinese language is based on the Chinese, which originate from the Mainland. Taiwan was controlled by the Chinese and even their Chinese language today would still pronounced what’s “q” as “q” instead of “ch”. Their Hokkien dialect is but a dialect. All the other forms of Chinese are also dialects. The many Chinese you see everywhere around the world today are in fact of Mainland Chinese ancestries. Our family records are still there somewhere in China. Go check it out yourself. All Chinese do come from Mainland China, that’s a fact, hence it is not because of our current massive size of population, it is because it is our language from thousands of years ago.
Their aggressions do not make their dynasties barbaric. If you want to say so the Europeans are much much more barbaric than the Chinese. The Opium War, the colonizations of the world, the eradication of races and ethnicities, the racisms. All of those stems from the Europeans. Kangxi’s court was pretty colourful in terms of races and ethnicities and the Chinese are probably the only ones who allows Muslim to flourish in China. We do not force our ideas upon others. We do not force others to learn our culture, to speak our language, to take our religions and we do not see others who are physically different from us as “half devil, half child”, a phrase to describe Africans from Kipling himself. If we are brutal, Europeans are monstrous. While I know two wrongs do not make a right, it seems you have forgotten the fact that every ancient empire works the same way.
Are we proud of our history? Yeah, we’re one of the oldest civilizations on Earth and our accomplishments are quiet amazing. Our language are preserved through the many dynasties and our cultures have only flourished.
And I honestly believe that you mistook our history as our current government. We are now part communist, part socialist and part capitalist, however, our previous governments were absolute monarchies, as most if not all governments during that time are. Your critics against our current government should not be used to ridicule our 4,000 years of history. Let’s get that fact straight first.
If you do not like our current government, then so be it. I have seen the China you have not seen and I have seen the struggles we do to become who we are today. And well, I would rather have our kind of government than risking a lunatic like Trump to be our president one day. If you think we are aggressive today, look around the world, maybe your eyes would open a bit. I believe China is the only country with a considerable amount of world power whose foreign policy circles around “not taking part in any coalition fighting”. The territorial claims on the South China Sea is ridiculous and no, I am not supporting that plan, but I also do not like how the US trying to become the big brother of them all and is much more aggressive than China itself. Let’s not forget how Japan came to be the US’ ally.
“While people governed by democratic systems in the rest of the world denounce military aggression towards other countries and lands” I would seriously laugh at this statement though. Remember the Vietnam War or the Guantanamo Bay? Yeah, cause you democratic people cannot torture people in your own land, you move these prisoners to Cuba and create Guantanamo Bay Prison lmao, nice try. And aren’t you guys the one applauding the war you guys have been fighting in the Middle East? That’s real military aggression, with real fighter jets and with real tanks. The Middle East do not belong to you guys. It is someone else’s territories and it is someone else’s countries. Like bitch, please. You guys claim you are democratic, but have you looked at how your governments are controlling other governments? Look at the US’ foreign policies towards South America and the Middle East. You guys literally kill and change all the presidents you don’t like. The only difference here is that we don’t try to install puppet governments all over the world. Seriously, geez. And the US also censors their medias btw, but just in a subtler way than direct censorship.
“Many Americans are critical of and sarcastic about so-called cowboy or Hollywood culture.” Umm, Hollywood’s culture is just a hedonistic culture though. I mean, if you guys are sarcastic about it, the Chinese government literally censors that shit out of their medias. This, including “too much boobies exposure”. So…yeah….we just have a different way to deal with things I guess?
@oohahh. Wow. 90% of your rambling about politics etc is b*llsh*t. Totally CRAP! Where did you get all your education and are you one of those Chinese students who benefit from Western education system and also enjoy so much freedom of speech under Western democratic system while mocking Western political systems as soon as you get a chance to diss up Westerners? For other Chinese defending their own culture and political system, I still have a certain level of respect. But people like you who go extensively to deride the society and the system you currently live in and take advantage of are most despicable. If you’re so proud of China inside out and don’t regard other Western countries more civilized than the current China, then why don’t you stick to your motherland for life? Why is there need for you to come all the way for schooling to a Western country/culture you despise?
you know what? If you hate China and its history so much just get out of this page. BBJX is based on the Chinese history played by Chinese actors from Chinese producers for Chinese viewers. So, if you hate it, then get out. And for the last fucking time, it is not “Ching”, it is “Qing”. Do not smear our country’s 4,000 years of history just to feed your fucking ego.
Also, what I said aren’t bullshit. Guantanamo Bay is done by Bush and closed by Obama. There’s a reason why people are losing faith in the Republicans. Trump is also true. So is the Vietnam war and the US’ foreign policies. China have its flaws and so do the rest of the world. Do not single China out like it’s the only sinner. It is not. And if you wanna talk about barbaric, didn’t the US almost eradicate the whole of the American Indian population in the US?
Also, I do not despise the US. I know why it had to do what it had to do. I respect their decisions, I do not even use it as a tool to bring the country down if I don’t meet racist, close minded bigot like you. If you ask me why I go to the US to study, my answer is because the US has more sun than the UK and isn’t as wild as Australia. Also, it is a hell lot cheaper than those two other countries I mentioned. I like living the US and so far I havent met a racist bigot like yourself in real life, so life has been fun, thank you very much. And if you hate China so much, don’t act like you know it all and start rambling about the romanization of OUR language. And remember that we helped your economy a lot during the recession. 🙂
@Drama2016
You’re an idiot if you think Wikipedia is “fallible a lot of time, not a credible source of information.” “people with basic intellectual level all know that Wikipedia” is a valid source of information if one actually goes and checks the sources that are cited in the text.
Jeezus christ please stop trying to sound all intellectual, it makes you look like a fool.
You just revealed yourself being a grade level by insisting Wikipedia is a valid source of information. LOL…Do you have any professional experience in any field or not? I guess not. So you’re forgivable since you’ve still got A LOT to learn from schooling. Just stop goofing around here kiddo!
@drama2016
First of all, China is a population of 1.7 billion people, with a 4000 years of old history and 50plus state-recognized different ethnicities, how can you generalise a whole population as ‘ overly sensitive’ because three? people on the internet disagreed with your comments? Second, maybe you didn’t mean for your first comment to come off as offensive and we could go on a tangent about how Romans came up with the term ‘barbaric’ to describe states, countries clans they conquered all over the world and stuff, but I won’t. People are upset about your phrasing, your reactions to their comments and your refusal to see it from a (culturally) different point of view. Their opininions are as valid as yours. For example, Americans learn at school that they went to ww1 and ww2 because ‘it was the right thing to do. I went to a West-European school and I’ve been taught they had to do it because otherwise they wouldn’t have their European market they could profit of. Thirdly, it’s not about Chinese people or people from Chinese heritage can’t take a punch about their culture, because they can and they do. It’s more about you ( an outsider with limited experience and knowlegde) belittling their knowledge about their own heritage while simultaneously saying your own culture (American) is far better. Well, Americans can joke with Americans about cowboys and what not, but what if I, an non-American made jokes about creationist schools, by gun violence, kkk, the Bush adminstration, the Iraq-war, the fact that the 2008 economical crisis is basically created because ‘Americans’ did not know how to pay with their credit cards or just the easy joke around all continents: ‘Americans are just dumb and stupid and know nothing about world history’ I’ve heard all of those things by British people, west-Europeans, North Europeans, Australians,…I grew up with the whole ‘ Americans are stupid’ But in real life, I’ve met American friends who are very open-minded and polite, educated and well-
informed and I have been proven wrong. And I’m the better and the gladder for it. There is nothing wrong with not knowing everything, of having different opinions and views than others, you don’t even have to agree with it. Just don’t belittle other people’s intelligence, feelings and views when they differ from yours.
@drama 2016
About the whole Roman thing, what I meant is that ‘barbaric’ for Romans just meant foreign and did not have the same whole negative conatation as it does now and sorry for all the grammar and spelling mistakes, it’s late and English is not my first language
@Dreamyklutz. I see your points. You talked a bit more rationally than other Chinese folks in this thread. But first off, may I ask if you’re Chinese or European? If you’re Chinese, then I equally hold you in doubt about your objectivity in judging all the debates here since you may be on a biased platform as other Chinese do in this forum. You can be critical of American culture in all aspects and I’ll most likely just brush off with a laugh since you’r entitled to your opinions and some of your points or observations may be true or wrong. In the US, everyone learns to be tolerant of opposite views in any open debates. Debates could be intense verbally. But to call ppl with different opinions “racist” or “idiot” is very offensive, provocative, and way out of line. So who’s belittling whom first in this thread? NOT ME! If you’re meticulous enough and really read all the comments from the very beginning to the end, you should note that it was these Chinese folks calling me racist and idiot first b/c I don’t appreciate Ching fashion and in my opinion I found the taste of Ching style barbaric-looking. That ticked me off and I decided to talked them down.
I also explained from many historical perspectives that Ching dynasty was indeed one of the most brutal rulings in Chinese history just like many other great empires in the world history based on many academic studies, even the 300+ yrs of regime also brought one of the most prosperous eras in ancient Chinese history. The prosperity doesn’t change the face that the regime was indeed brutal and oppressive to ppl of other ethnicity. But these Chinese commenters couldn’t accept the historical facts I quoted and got all emotional. Basically from their arguments, they equate Ching to China and China to Ching. Therefore they take it as an insult to be critical of some cultural aspects of Ching dynasty. If you consider what I said about these historical facts is culture bashing, well, then there’s nothing I can do to make you and other Chinese feel more at ease since I can’t change what had happened in the history as equally I can’t rebuke the shame brought about thanks to infamous slavery in the American history. Guys, we’ve gonna be rational and civilized to accept evidence, not denying it.
On top of all I said, if you think I intentionally diss up Chinese culture b/c I’m an American and an outsider, then you wrong me totally. I actually feel like LOLing @ your presumption. Let me tell you clearly and loud. My ethnicity on any legal categorization is OF CHINESE DESCENT, perhaps with some mix of Spanish or Dutch blood in reality and we speak Mandarin at home. So what the heck would I have intention to look down my own culture heritage? LOL….You guys have to wake up from being blind by your own pride and rationally look at all the historical facts.
Again, in any case, that won’t change my opinions about ugly Ching getup and particularly wacky pigtail on man’s bald head. That’s just hideous from aesthetic point of view. Enough being said, I no longer have any interest to squander my energy on futile arguments in vain. You Chinese folks just get me really fed up and tired. LOL
Why can’t we just get along and praise the clash of cultures and traditions? No matter who is right and who is wrong, cultures are cultures and traditions are traditions. We should be accepting of all because they are history, and history refines human nature.
:/ ohmy. ….they look terrible
LOL, that’s an understatement. Like WTH. So their solution about the cheap looking costumes was to cover it with netting. They look over sized and cheaply made. We are not asking for silk, but at least satin can mimic silk on film, not these cheap polyester they have gone with. It’s not like the drama is CGI laden, or in need of large scale battle scenes, so were is the budget going. This is a visual drama and the styling and early stills of the Chinese version is what made it into the success it became.
Yeah, I just can’t with the attire. The emblem looks so “bad”…. LOL!
Just like the c version, it has too many main characters to give each individual substance I think. The audience will compare the two versions to their heart’s content…and I hope this version has that extra punch in your face “surprise you didn’t expect that did yah ” featured in their version…that’s my wishful thinking anyway.
wow, these costumes… they really don’t look believable, regardless of how handsome they may be
Baekhyun looks terrible. Urgh I dont know how they could cast him but I guess SM paid them for taking him. The other two dont look too terrible in comparison to Baekhyun but I guess it wouldnt be that difficult to look better than him. But still hoping that Lee Jun Ki and IU are able to somehow save this mess
he was casted the same way Kyungsoo was casted in It’s Okay, That’s Love
so bitter
Lee Joon gi about Scarlet Heart:Ryeo from Allure
Nevertheless, you must have your reasons for sticking to action.
A: I can’t do action always. As an actor, I think I am blessed to be able to do action performance using my body a lot. It could be harder and countless injuries may follow but I want to do it as long as my body can handle it. However, what I am saying now may be the last time I say in this interview. I want to do something ordinary from next year. Scarlet Heart:Ryeo is not much of an action drama. Lots of actors star in and the stories are shared by them whereas I was leading as one top in my previous works.
Scarlet Heart:Ryeo was the bestseller in China and super hit drama equivalent to Sandglass(모래시계) in Korea. What is your role in there?
A: I am the fourth son of Wang-gun (the founder of Goryeo dynasty). At first, he was an irrelevant prince to the throne but later he became Gwang-jong(the fourth King of Goryeo). He was so wild as he was called “dogwolf”. Then he meets Hyesoo which IU plays as and has romance with her and there’s some fun in the process of taking the throne. Since it is 100 % pre-production work, we will probably start filming right after the long holiday. It is an interesting process that he gets to have the desire for royal authority amid the incidents since his entering the palace.
Have you seen the Chinese version Scarlet Heart?
A: I was up to episode 10. Same case with SWWTN, I watch the originals only to the extent that I can refer to understand my work.
Is it first time to work with director Kim Gyutae?
A: Director Kim was the one of the biggest reasons for me to choose this work. “That winter, wind blows” was his work.I thought I could learn a lot if I work with him who presents excellent image beauty. So I even asked him first which actors he had in mind.
What do you want to get from this work?
A: If I have to get something, it is the love from viewers after all. In the end, actors have to connect with the viewers. I am immersing myself in Gwang-jong role thinking that this is the last period drama in my youth.
Let alone marriage, you’ve become a senior actor.
A: Older actors who used to treat me like a baby now treat me as a fellow actor. “Joongi, you have worked quite some time now?” like that. I feel pressure as much. In this piece we have lots of young actors. I have to take the initiative and set an example. Only age and long career do not make you a (respectable) senior.
I heard that you are a great big brother who takes care of people.
A: I like Hyun(Byeon, Baekhyun) lately. I take care of all the junior actors but Hyun draws my attention specially. So I get to say even a word more to him than others. And we see each other often because we are neighbors. And he has little experience so I want to take care of him. I cannot help but smile when I see him. I must have aged really.
Do you have plans for this year?
A: I will have to look for other things while I shoot Scarlet Heart: Ryeo. I want to be more aggressive this year. I have focused on dramas so far. So I want to do movie work for a change. But first of all I will live as the 4th son of Gwang-gun. A king! What a leap in my social status after a long time!
wasn’t supposed to be reply
Hi, non-Korean here! Any help explaining why these costumes don’t cut it as proper sageuk garb? My non-expert impression is that they look too Chinese to me.
Although I do get the problem with the idol kid. Haha.
The drama is set in the Goryeo dynasty, where the costumes were heavily influenced by China, especially the official costumes which followed & are similar to China’s.
the first 2 looks horrid but the last one in the pink outfit looks good
khn looks good.
It seems like the costumes in this drama and Hwarang are getting a lot of grief. I can’t quite figure out if it’s because fans are just used to gats and hanbocks. Jang Hyuk plays the same character as LJG in Shine or Go Crazy and the hair in that drama is the same style as seen by some of the actors here. The robe with the funky belt was only warn at court…if memory serves. It has been a while so I am thinking they will probably be in a more informal outfit with the tight belt for a chunk of the drama.
I think they do try to be historically accurate, if not with the obviously fictional story, with the costuming and hair. In a C-Drama I was watching…I think Palace….they had a non-royal wear the color yellow and got into trouble because people knew that color was a no go.
Hwarang’s costumes looks much nicer though.. at least they look fitting..
these just… looks oversized.. they have no time to tailor the costumes? or they are out of budget this early in the filming? =.=
This drama is being underwritten by Universal; they have a huge budget. People can like or not like the style but I guess my point is if it is authentic to the time then it is what it is. Again, I don’t think they’re going to be walking around in this get up all the time…but I’ve been wrong before !
this was on the day of the costume fitting, also the same day as the gosa when the pictures of them wearing these first appeared. apparently it’s all for test shoots and won’t actually appear on the show, so I don’t understand why the production company bothers to release them when the reactions to them are not good…
the color in unflattering and I just hoped it fitted, It looks a size bigger,
I feel bad looking at the comments about Baekhyun. I love BBJX too, it’s my favourite drama, but please guys give the boy and the production a chance! Even if they mess up, we still have the original to appreciate. Yeesh.